Had an interesting discussion with a really good friend the other day which was challenging and completely out of the box of normal 'Christian' thought. I just want to share some of it with you, for no other reason than it has occupied my thoughts the last few days...
The conversation started because a friend who is not a christian raised an issue of whether it is wrong to partake in communion if you don't even believe in the bible-for you it is just a piece of bread and a sip of wine; nothing more or less. Then we discussed someone else who wouldn't call themselves a christian but who feels that they have a personal relationship with God-they pray and share things with God. However the point was raised; are these prayers effective in any way? Does God listen to the prayers of people who are not christians? Lets get into the theology a little bit-it is said that God cannot stand evil, and therefore does not have communion with sin. Therefore, to pay the price and allow us to have a relatioship with God, Christ died. Theologically speaking it can be said that God doesn't see us, but instead sees Christ as we stand before Him (if we are christians). However, if God cannot have communion with sin, then how do we even get saved?! And thats were the discussion seemed to stall for a while...
I don't know if I have an answer-I mean logically speaking, if God can't stand sin, and Christ takes our place, then for us to accept Christ, we have to come before God as sinners-it seems paradoxical. And the question I had to ask was that does God ignore us sinners, or does he lower his standards for a brief time so that we can approach him to seek forgiveness?
If you're still with me, could you explain this to me; if you are not, then don't worry about it!
Anyway, it seems to me that yes, God hates sin (righteous anger of course), and that the only way we can have a real relationship is to stand on the payment that Christ made. But does that mean that God just ignores those who haven't accepted Christ? It seems to make Christianity a little bit too transactional; that is, if you don't accept God, he wont listen, and furthermore, you're going to hell! It doesn't seem to fit with the view I have of an all loving God who sent his son!
So what did I conclude? Well, I suppose if you are a christian, its kinda like a marriage-when you marry someone (so I'm told) the relationship you have with that person is so much deeper than the one you have with your mates-there is more to it. So maybe God has 'friendship' with people who are not christians; he listens and sometimes will speak to them, but the relationship is limited because that person is not 'married' to God (which is in a sense scripturally correct wording-'bride and bridegroom!).
The lesson...get married to God. Fall in love with him, because it is the best relationship you will ever have...period!
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6 comments:
nice post stuart. however ... i must complain about the use of the term ... period? this lurgan my man, not the bronx. keep it real and peace out.
My understanding of salvation, is that God sees us through the filter of Christ, thus He can see us as we will, and can be, not as we are. But you're right, it doesn't make a lot of sense to our minds, but then who said it would make sense to us? In a way, its pretty arrogant for us to expect to understand it.
To further answer your question directly, I believe God's standards on sin are unchanging. He can only see us, have us in His presence, or answer us when viewed/seen through the filter of Christ.
Molar - nice to see you're blogging!
To perhaps throw the cat among the pigeons, I think I have to question the idea that God needs any kind of apparatus to 'see' or relate with us. In fact, he is always listening to and acting on the cries of the poor and marginalised (who may often be 'unsaved').
If God loves all that he has made, then it follows that he will listen to those he loves (not, as many believe, acting like a great carnivorous deity to be pacified!). Having not embraced the gospel does not preclude that (and I would suggest that the idea that God's starting point is 'ignorance-of-the-sinful' is extra-biblical).
The question for me is whether such a standpoint has actually been adopted out of our need to explain God's perceived social silence/inactivity or to emphasise an exclusive soteriology? Wouldn't those issues actually be down to the failure of the people of God? The veil was torn in two...
Cheers for comments. I would tend to be on the side of that God actually does listen to people (whether saved or not). I think this raises some uncomfortable questions for some of us, but I agree with what Steve said; "the idea that God's starting point is 'ignorance-of-the-sinful' is extra-biblical". I don't feel that God ignores those who aren't Christians, more that He has closer relationship with those who are Christians. Like I said, if He does ignore the sinful, how then can He ever hear our requests for forgiveness?
Hmmmm...Thanks for the posts guys; a lot to chew on!
Peace
Good chat Molar. just found your blog, think I'll frequent more often!
I believe we serve a caring and a compassionate God. I believe if i was the worst sinner in the world and i were to be stuck at the top of mount everest, and i asked God for help-he would definately come to my rescue.......... i just feel God has a bigger heart than what we might think the bible is trying to say.
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